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	<title>Comments on: The Unsociable, Radically-Individualist Soul of Social Media</title>
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	<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/</link>
	<description>Enterprise 2.0 Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Eric Kotonya</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-67335</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Kotonya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-67335</guid>
		<description>Wow! After reading this, I now see a clear-cut line between Social 2.0 and Enterprise 2.0.

As long as people-rating (social media) is used as the benchmark, the volume of collective intelligence (of true value to the enterprise) will remain muted in the noise.

Enterprise 2.0 platforms need to be designed and built from ground on principles that factor in specifics such as collection, processing and broadcasting of enterprise knowledge - they simply cannot evolve from social networks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! After reading this, I now see a clear-cut line between Social 2.0 and Enterprise 2.0.</p>
<p>As long as people-rating (social media) is used as the benchmark, the volume of collective intelligence (of true value to the enterprise) will remain muted in the noise.</p>
<p>Enterprise 2.0 platforms need to be designed and built from ground on principles that factor in specifics such as collection, processing and broadcasting of enterprise knowledge - they simply cannot evolve from social networks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-37720</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-37720</guid>
		<description>Well, not sure I agree with the premise that the people who like to interact with others face to face are the main folks to be called "social."  True, they like one type of social interaction (face-to-face), but this doesn't mean this is the only or even better type of interaction.  All humans are social in that everything that we do and think and learn is in one way or another linked to feedback from others, and social networks just provide one way of expressing this being social.  Also, to say that the "non-social" or geeks or whatever we would like to call them can contribute less is somewhat strange.  I would probably say they (we??) can contribute in a *different* way, and different in this scenario seems to be a good thing.

btw, really like your blog -- thought provoking, very insightful</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, not sure I agree with the premise that the people who like to interact with others face to face are the main folks to be called &#8220;social.&#8221;  True, they like one type of social interaction (face-to-face), but this doesn&#8217;t mean this is the only or even better type of interaction.  All humans are social in that everything that we do and think and learn is in one way or another linked to feedback from others, and social networks just provide one way of expressing this being social.  Also, to say that the &#8220;non-social&#8221; or geeks or whatever we would like to call them can contribute less is somewhat strange.  I would probably say they (we??) can contribute in a *different* way, and different in this scenario seems to be a good thing.</p>
<p>btw, really like your blog &#8212; thought provoking, very insightful</p>
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		<title>By: Venkat</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-8912</link>
		<dc:creator>Venkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-8912</guid>
		<description>Chris:

Interesting point you raise there. You highlight the fact that I conflated individualist in terms of opinion/groupthink/agreeableness vs. individualist in terms of uncooperative. 

As successful wikis show, the lead users are both individualist in terms of how they think, and cooperative in terms of how they participate in group process. 

So I don't think it is necessarily recognition that motivates people (though that is part of it, bigger in some technologies like blogs, smaller in others like wikis). To the extent that it IS recognition, you should ask, "recognition by who?" That could be broad public, an aspirational elite, bosses, celebrities, other opinion leaders etc. You should also ask WHAT constitutes recognition. Prizes and medals are for collectivists mainly. Individualists might find recognition in things like influencing a decision to go their way, having people fear their wit, etc. 

What you want is support for processes of contention within the group where people are competing for recognition, in whatever form or from whatever source they want. MediaWiki naturally supports that of course, with its 'talk' pages that allow people to furiously debate articles, and admins to dictatorially clamp down when necessary. Other wikis, if they don't have that, should be augmented by things like bulletin boards. 

Essentially, some way for individualists to establish opinion leadership based on credibility and 'whuffie' capital AROUND collaborative projects with respect TO the source of any recognition they crave IN the form they want.

Other tools will require their own context-specific thinking. I don't believe in secret sauces in this space, so the orchestrator of a social media effort will basically have to sit down and think things through with the core group of right people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris:</p>
<p>Interesting point you raise there. You highlight the fact that I conflated individualist in terms of opinion/groupthink/agreeableness vs. individualist in terms of uncooperative. </p>
<p>As successful wikis show, the lead users are both individualist in terms of how they think, and cooperative in terms of how they participate in group process. </p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t think it is necessarily recognition that motivates people (though that is part of it, bigger in some technologies like blogs, smaller in others like wikis). To the extent that it IS recognition, you should ask, &#8220;recognition by who?&#8221; That could be broad public, an aspirational elite, bosses, celebrities, other opinion leaders etc. You should also ask WHAT constitutes recognition. Prizes and medals are for collectivists mainly. Individualists might find recognition in things like influencing a decision to go their way, having people fear their wit, etc. </p>
<p>What you want is support for processes of contention within the group where people are competing for recognition, in whatever form or from whatever source they want. MediaWiki naturally supports that of course, with its &#8216;talk&#8217; pages that allow people to furiously debate articles, and admins to dictatorially clamp down when necessary. Other wikis, if they don&#8217;t have that, should be augmented by things like bulletin boards. </p>
<p>Essentially, some way for individualists to establish opinion leadership based on credibility and &#8216;whuffie&#8217; capital AROUND collaborative projects with respect TO the source of any recognition they crave IN the form they want.</p>
<p>Other tools will require their own context-specific thinking. I don&#8217;t believe in secret sauces in this space, so the orchestrator of a social media effort will basically have to sit down and think things through with the core group of right people.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Zach</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-8905</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-8905</guid>
		<description>Venkat,

Very interesting perspective! Thanks for sharing.

Considering these individualistic motivations of social media, do you have suggestions for implementing tools like a wiki and balancing the need for a collective output with a respect for individual contributions and desire for recognition?

- Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Venkat,</p>
<p>Very interesting perspective! Thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>Considering these individualistic motivations of social media, do you have suggestions for implementing tools like a wiki and balancing the need for a collective output with a respect for individual contributions and desire for recognition?</p>
<p>- Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Lucia Samaras</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-8560</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucia Samaras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-8560</guid>
		<description>Very provocative posting - thanks! 

I agree that individualism is critical to good social media. My expectation is that I'll be able to see some creativity out there given the number of people who will contribute their points of view, as you have done.

My belief is that an individual who feels comfortable with his or her unique voice is someone who is more willing to hear that of another. 

One minor adjustment - wolves don't battle for the carcass. They operate under a very defined hierarchy. They know who their leader is at all times.

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very provocative posting - thanks! </p>
<p>I agree that individualism is critical to good social media. My expectation is that I&#8217;ll be able to see some creativity out there given the number of people who will contribute their points of view, as you have done.</p>
<p>My belief is that an individual who feels comfortable with his or her unique voice is someone who is more willing to hear that of another. </p>
<p>One minor adjustment - wolves don&#8217;t battle for the carcass. They operate under a very defined hierarchy. They know who their leader is at all times.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Davidove</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-8537</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Davidove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-8537</guid>
		<description>What I like about this "opinion piece" is that it has made me think about the kind of characteristics an individual might need to be a successful "social media" user - and the expectations we might need to set with people or teams that have expressed an interest in using "social media" to improve the way in which they collaborate and work.  I see technology as an extension to human capabilities and as "things" that help us do what we naturally do but much better.  My expectation is that people will use "social media" in addition to all of the other ways they interact, collaborate, and share with people in their network or community.  I do not see "social media" as a replacement and something that will eliminate the need to use a phone, meet with people in person, etc.

Thank you for writing this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I like about this &#8220;opinion piece&#8221; is that it has made me think about the kind of characteristics an individual might need to be a successful &#8220;social media&#8221; user - and the expectations we might need to set with people or teams that have expressed an interest in using &#8220;social media&#8221; to improve the way in which they collaborate and work.  I see technology as an extension to human capabilities and as &#8220;things&#8221; that help us do what we naturally do but much better.  My expectation is that people will use &#8220;social media&#8221; in addition to all of the other ways they interact, collaborate, and share with people in their network or community.  I do not see &#8220;social media&#8221; as a replacement and something that will eliminate the need to use a phone, meet with people in person, etc.</p>
<p>Thank you for writing this.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan Hauptmann - cm&#124;d</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-7862</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Hauptmann - cm&#124;d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-7862</guid>
		<description>"distinction between wolf-pack and sheep-like social structures"

Venkatesh, I can't help, but this brings G. Bush's crap-talking about "good and evel" into my mind. We both know that the issue of being social is far more complex. 

But you are right in that we have, in the world of enterprise 2.0, to maintain former discussions about society. There are many theoretical frameworks (sociological, philosophical, psychological, managerial) that could be adapted - be it 'racional choice' or 'principal agent' for those who want to play towards individualism, be it Bourdieu about Social Capital or feminist theories for those who are rather critical, be it &lt;a href="http://amitaietzioni.org" rel="nofollow"&gt;Amitai Etzioni&lt;/a&gt; an his view of communitarism, or be it systems theory for those that who it very very abstract. :-)

I think we'll still have to wait a while before we see some interesting results from these (and other) research streams. However, I am confident that some of them will be marvelous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;distinction between wolf-pack and sheep-like social structures&#8221;</p>
<p>Venkatesh, I can&#8217;t help, but this brings G. Bush&#8217;s crap-talking about &#8220;good and evel&#8221; into my mind. We both know that the issue of being social is far more complex. </p>
<p>But you are right in that we have, in the world of enterprise 2.0, to maintain former discussions about society. There are many theoretical frameworks (sociological, philosophical, psychological, managerial) that could be adapted - be it &#8216;racional choice&#8217; or &#8216;principal agent&#8217; for those who want to play towards individualism, be it Bourdieu about Social Capital or feminist theories for those who are rather critical, be it <a href="http://amitaietzioni.org" rel="nofollow">Amitai Etzioni</a> an his view of communitarism, or be it systems theory for those that who it very very abstract. :-)</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ll still have to wait a while before we see some interesting results from these (and other) research streams. However, I am confident that some of them will be marvelous.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Husband</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-7846</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Husband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-7846</guid>
		<description>Once upon a time, I wrote a short (and incomplete) essay titled The Medium Is The Meaning We Consume and Create ... Together, which I think may be a long and complicate version of the equation you set out in the box.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once upon a time, I wrote a short (and incomplete) essay titled The Medium Is The Meaning We Consume and Create &#8230; Together, which I think may be a long and complicate version of the equation you set out in the box.</p>
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		<title>By: Venkat</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-7813</link>
		<dc:creator>Venkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-7813</guid>
		<description>Stefan - Nobody is arguing that we are not a social species. That's tautological. In fact, I started by noting the distinction between wolf-pack and sheep-like social structures. What I was arguing is that conflation of social with sociable/collectivist which a lot of people seem to do when it comes to social media, is an invalid leap. 

In this broad sense, tigers and grizzlies are social just as lions and dolphins are. Individual and social identity have a chicken-egg relationship. One does not derive from the other. Social identity also could not exist without individualism. If the individual-social tension did not exist, you and I would be cells in a Borg-like multicellular creature. Or non-interacting uni-cellular creatures in the primordial soup.

And the link you posted, to Mead's bio, doesn't actually prove anything. The individual-social debate is one where you can stack up as many experts on one side as on another. Radical individualism is an existential/metaphysical concept, useful for some sorts of debate (like this one), but not a concept that can be meaningfully invalidated. Saying  individualism doesn't exist is like saying 'culture' or 'society' doesn't exist.

Venkat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stefan - Nobody is arguing that we are not a social species. That&#8217;s tautological. In fact, I started by noting the distinction between wolf-pack and sheep-like social structures. What I was arguing is that conflation of social with sociable/collectivist which a lot of people seem to do when it comes to social media, is an invalid leap. </p>
<p>In this broad sense, tigers and grizzlies are social just as lions and dolphins are. Individual and social identity have a chicken-egg relationship. One does not derive from the other. Social identity also could not exist without individualism. If the individual-social tension did not exist, you and I would be cells in a Borg-like multicellular creature. Or non-interacting uni-cellular creatures in the primordial soup.</p>
<p>And the link you posted, to Mead&#8217;s bio, doesn&#8217;t actually prove anything. The individual-social debate is one where you can stack up as many experts on one side as on another. Radical individualism is an existential/metaphysical concept, useful for some sorts of debate (like this one), but not a concept that can be meaningfully invalidated. Saying  individualism doesn&#8217;t exist is like saying &#8216;culture&#8217; or &#8217;society&#8217; doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>Venkat</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan Hauptmann - cm&#124;d</title>
		<link>http://enterprise2blog.com/2009/02/the-unsociable-radically-individualist-soul-of-social-media/comment-page-1/#comment-7810</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Hauptmann - cm&#124;d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enterprise2blog.com/?p=1396#comment-7810</guid>
		<description>Kevin is right, there is no such thing like "radical individualism". Begin by reading this: http://tinyurl.com/bgmk8l  

A human being is an output of society. Without society you would not even have the ability for being a "hermit". You wouldn't be able to think about anything. You would not think at all but act like a strange animal (not even a higher-ranked one because these are social, too) with a seemingly much too large brain. (No offence, I mean human beings in general ;-)  )

"Social" in the context of social software means that the output is being made by a crowd - whether the crowd-members act selfish or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin is right, there is no such thing like &#8220;radical individualism&#8221;. Begin by reading this: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/bgmk8l" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/bgmk8l</a>  </p>
<p>A human being is an output of society. Without society you would not even have the ability for being a &#8220;hermit&#8221;. You wouldn&#8217;t be able to think about anything. You would not think at all but act like a strange animal (not even a higher-ranked one because these are social, too) with a seemingly much too large brain. (No offence, I mean human beings in general ;-)  )</p>
<p>&#8220;Social&#8221; in the context of social software means that the output is being made by a crowd - whether the crowd-members act selfish or not.</p>
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